In an exclusive interview with SportsLens, former college football and Super Bowl champion Jonathan Vilma talks Aaron Rodgers’ need to retire, Cam Ward’s draft stock, why Aaron Glenn should be the next coach of the Saints and more.
The NFL on FOX color analyst also believes ex-teammate Drew Brees will be ‘much more relaxed’ in his second chance at broadcasting.
Key topics in the Q&A with Vilma, a three-time Pro Bowler with the Jets and Saints:
- Why it’s time for Aaron Rodgers to retire
- Miami star QB Cam Ward’s draft stock
- Aaron Glenn’s fit as the next coach of the Saints
- Drew Brees watching his NBC broadcast tape ‘20 times over on how to improve’
- Sean Payton getting the best out of Bo Nix, just like he did Brees
- Vilma’s relationship with Roger Goodell after Bountygate
- Bill Belichick’s fit at North Carolina
- The best off-ball linebacker in the NFL
Q: What are your thoughts on Miami missing the College Football Playoff?
Jonathan Vilma: Disappointed. It was a really good start to the season. They didn’t finish obviously, but you hate to kind of look at just the back end and forget about the overall picture of the Hurricanes winning 10 games, they hadn’t done that since 2018 or 2017, I believe. And then you look at the great play by Cam Ward. He’s up for the Heisman finalists so there are a lot of good things to be excited about, a lot of things that you can say, okay, this can carry over to next season. And then of course the big item being finished, right? So that’s where the disappointment comes, where the Hurricanes, you know, back in the good old days, so to speak, always known for finishing out games, finishing out seasons. So that’ll be the obvious focus for the offseason going into next year.
Q: You won a national championship with the Hurricanes. How frustrating has it been to watch Miami drop off from its heyday?
Jonathan Vilma: It’s tough. You build a program, you’re successful, you expect that it’ll just continue. And the biggest lesson is remembering that you have to be intentional to have that sustained success. And it’s not just going to happen. And you think if you get a bunch of five star recruits, which is what we were getting back in that time, that it should just automatically equate to W’s and championships, et cetera. And that really wasn’t the case. I look and say that the best thing was that it was a learning lesson for the program, learning lesson for the University of Miami. And I also say the best thing is that we are in the state of Florida, that allows for us to have that slump, but be able to quickly rebound because there’s so much talent here. And knowing that, that’s always going to bode well for us. So now that we’ve learned those lessons, we’ve become intentional about not only who we sign and recruit, but making sure that they’re aligned with our vision for sustained success.
Q: How realistic is it to think Miami can get back to that level soon?
Jonathan Vilma: I think it can happen quickly. I think that the landscape of college football has changed. There’s going to be another Cam Ward, and that’s not to minimize him as a player, but to say that there’s some really talented quarterbacks that would be available, you’re able to watch film on them and how they performed at other universities and you can bring them in and then have some success as well. So I look at that and also say that with the Cam Wards of the world, these quarterbacks that have success at other universities, you’re gonna see high school quarterbacks. They’re gonna say, all right, I know if I go there, I’m really, really good. I know if I go there, I’m going to have maybe a year where I get to learn from a quarterback who’s actually been there, done that and has played at a university and played at a high level so I can learn from them. And then it will be my time next year. And so that would be the ideal situation. I would love to see, you know, some of the younger quarterbacks step in, play really well, stay for two or three years and have some continuity. But if not, you do have the transfer portal. So I do see the ability of Mario Cristobal and his coaching staff to recruit, to identify the talent, they’re able to look at it from both lenses and say, we’ll go hard in the transfer portal, but we do have some guys that we’re able to room and develop that’ll step in and fill in nicely. And they don’t have to be a Cam Ward. They have to be whoever they are, right? The best version of themselves so that they can go out and be successful.
Q: What do you think of quarterback Cam Ward’s NFL Draft stock? Is he a guy who will translate well to the league?
Jonathan Vilma: Definitely. The first thing I noticed, which was a little off putting to a lot of people watching him, is how calm he was, right? They were like, man, it looks like nothing phases him. And I love quarterbacks like that. You want someone where, all right, he doesn’t show a lot of emotion, that’s great because that means he’s thinking right? He’s thinking the game. He’s calm. He’s cool. He’s relaxed. Nothing is going to rattle him. So I love that he has that demeanor about him. The mindset is there. And now it’s just a matter of being able to continually read the defenses. He’s going to have to speed up his mental play clock a little bit as all rookie quarterbacks have to do when they get to the NFL. But the best thing about him is that nothing seemed to rattle him. And if nothing’s going to rattle him, then he’s going to have a lot of success in the NFL because he has the arm, he has the mobility. It’s just a matter of staying cool, calm, learning the defenses, processing faster, which I think he is going to do very well.
Q: What is your evaluation of Aaron Rodgers this season?
Jonathan Vilma: Father time, man. It catches up with everyone. And it’s always the player that’s the last to notice when they’ve lost a step or they’re not as explosive, or as you said, they’re not throwing the ball as well, they look old. And so in Aaron Rodgers’ mind — I’ve been there — he thinks he’s still got it. You can’t tell him any differently because that’s the honest to God truth in his mind. And so if you are a GM or a head coach stepping in, you recognize that he’s lost a little bit, but is he still good enough to be a starter? Is he still good enough in the system that you want to be a starter? Is he still going to be a great leader? There are all these other factors that play into these great players. And I always said, you know, having a great player at 80 percent of what he was is still better than just bringing in a selfish primetime diva, right? And so you have to kind of factor in all those other pieces, which I can’t answer. The product obviously doesn’t look good, but there may be other factors that he’s able to elevate the team with aside from just being on the field.
Q: He’s returning from a torn Achilles and reportedly has been dealing with injuries much of the year. Is it possible he can bounce back after getting fully healthy this offseason?
Jonathan Vilma: I just remember some other really good players that, those nagging injuries just took longer and longer to heal and what we viewed as nagging injuries to start our career, are serious injuries later on in our career, and he’s about to be in Year 20. An ankle injury is a big deal for a 40-year-old quarterback, right? It’s not a big deal for a 25-year-old quarterback. Whatever other injuries are ailing him, they’re real issues because they just take longer to heal, recover and it obviously is affecting his play. So I don’t look at it as a major injury and then he just needs time to heal up. It’s that anytime he takes a hit, anytime he steps awkwardly, he rolls an ankle, whatever it is, it’s going to be an issue, right? And that’s just something that he has to deal with, the Jets have to deal with and prepare for. He’s not going to recover the way he did before. No player his age does. And you have to manage that. And how many of those little knick-knacks can he take? Well, from what you’re telling me, I haven’t seen a lot of film on him this year, but clearly not a lot. Because it doesn’t look good on Sundays. It’s not an easy decision. It’s a very loaded question and a loaded process because, when do you say enough is enough? And how do you know that week eight, he may be fine. And then week nine, it’s a bloodbath. And then he has all these injuries that just wear him out.
Q: Do you think Rodgers should just retire?
Jonathan Vilma: So, the fan in me says yes, he should retire because I want to remember Aaron Rodgers when I went against him as one of the best quarterbacks ever to play the game. I just remember staying up late at night, shaking my head because you can’t stop him. You can slow him down. You can hope he would have an off day. But you couldn’t stop him. And it was the most frustrating thing because playing against guys like him, Tom Brady in his prime, Drew Brees when I practiced against him, it’s so frustrating because you are literally trying your best and it’s still not good enough and you have to hope that his best is not there that day in order to win. So that’s how I want to remember him. I don’t want to remember him as this guy who doesn’t look like himself. Everyone’s saying he doesn’t look like himself. I don’t know what the issues are, but as a fan, I always want to remember the greatness of that guy, of that player.
As an athlete being in his shoes, I’ve had friends, myself where there’s part of me that said – I had my daughter at the time, she was young, it’s time to move on and get off the train, think about family life, hanging out with my daughter, enjoying it – had a great career. I don’t think he has any kids, so there may not be anything as motivating for him to say, you know what? Let’s take this other path in life. Get off the train and go from there. So now you say, well, why wouldn’t he go until he can’t go anymore, until someone doesn’t pay him, right? Why wouldn’t he do it? Again, his 80 percent is still better than some others’100%. You kind of look at it from that angle and say, okay, I could see why Aaron Rodgers wants to keep playing. As a fan, I don’t want to see it, but as an athlete, if you can keep going and you have nothing else that’s bigger than football that’s really pulling you, then have at it.
Q: Sean Payton and the job he’s doing in Denver, is he a bit underrated? Should he be in the conversation as one of the greatest coaches of all-time?
Jonathan Vilma: I think the difference is, if he goes and beats the best with what he has now, he’ll then be talked about as one of the greatest. I think that when you look at Bill Parcells, he went and beat the best at that time. And that’s what put him over the top. Belichick with a million Super Bowls. So that’s obvious. Andy Reid is now doing it with Mahomes multiple times. Each one of them had this kind of prolific moment in their coaching career that then elevated them over the top. Sean had that first moment that put them in that category and that discussion. Now it’s time for the next prolific moment that can then put him into the greatest of all time discussion. Going back to being underrated, Sean will never get enough credit for how tough his teams were and we used to practice hard, man. We used to grind it out. We used to have physical practices and because his offense was a very high flying offense, it looked good and it was great for TV, you just automatically assumed that we weren’t tough. But it was quite the opposite. And you don’t win that many games and get to NFC championships and win a Super Bowl without having tough teams, right? And he won’t get enough credit for it.
But I think people are starting to notice because when you look at Denver, a lot of that is the toughness of Denver, their defense and how well they’re playing. They run the ball well, the offensive line is playing well. So forget Bo Nix for a second. They did everything that they needed to do to surround Bo Nix with a team that is ready. I won’t say Super Bowl ready, but ready to make some noise. And now Bo Nix steps in and he’s doing a great job as well. So if there’s one thing I wish that people would start to look back on, it’d be Sean Payton and his toughness, the tough character, attitude, tenacity of the teams that he coached. It was always there. You beat the best and there’s no better opportunity than playing Kansas City twice in the division. So no better opportunity to go out there, state your claim, beat them twice, make the playoffs, do all those things, and then be talked about as the greatest.
Q: Do you think Sean Payton is playing a key role in Bo Nix’s development?
Jonathan Vilma: Definitely. I remember there was some footage of him and Bo Nix getting into it on the sideline, and I remember how tough he was on Drew Brees, and I also remember how intentional he was about making sure there’s some things as a quarterback, he’s going to let you get away with. There are some things that are fundamentally a no go, right? You have to do it this way. He’s seen it work, time and time again. It’s a proven track record. So I like that he is as hard on the best player or the most recognizable player in Bo Nix as he is with the rest of the team. He’s very very demanding and because of that, Bo Nix has responded to how demanding Sean can be, and you see the production because of it.
Q: When Brees retired and Payton left, do you think it was a mistake for New Orleans not to tear it down?
Jonathan Vilma: That’s a tough one because when Sean and Drew left, the defense was still outstanding. Demario Davis, you had Cameron Jordan, the list goes on, Marshon Lattimore. I can rip off probably six guys that were Pro Bowlers, All-Pro. And it is very hard to just take something that’s really successful and then dismantle it. In hindsight, of course, everyone’s going to say, you should have done this, blah, blah, blah, but when you look back, when Sean left, when Drew left, everyone said, well, if they get a quarterback, they’re still going to be really good because this defense is so good. That was the commentary the whole time. So it’s like, how are you going to at one time say, well, the defense is really good and they can just get a few pieces and then now come back and say, oh, they should have just dismantled the whole thing. Alright, some of those guys were a little older and at some point, you do want to move on but I would argue that they shouldn’t have done a wholesale change.
They should have hit better on the draft picks. And I think that’s where it’s been hurting them because on the defensive side, you draft about two or three defensive ends, probably a little bit more, but I know two in the first round and they just haven’t had the success, right? One is not there anymore. Payton Turner is still there and same thing with the corners, linebacker and safety. You can go down the list. If you’re not good, solid replacements in the draft, it’s going to be tough. You can’t just do everything in free agency. When you look at Demario, Cam Jordan, Cam Jordan’s a great example. He’s always been a great player, always relentless, great effort, et cetera. You drafted two or three guys. In that period, none of them really panned out. So it’s like, how can I get rid of Cam Jordan? He’s still our best defensive end and we don’t have anything to replace him. We thought we were getting something in the draft and we didn’t. So when you look at it from that perspective, they tried, it looks like they tried and they were trying to make sure that they had a nice succession plan and it just didn’t work out.
Q: Looking to the offseason, does this feel like the time for a reset in New Orleans?
Jonathan Vilma: I would say if I am going to dismantle the team and start over, I absolutely have to keep two, three, four key veterans that, yeah, they’re past their primes, they may rotate in and out, they may be a backup, whatever it is, but they’re going to continue with the culture because the Demario Davises of the world, the Cam Jordans or the Tyrann Mathieus, they’ve known success a lot of their career. This is foreign to them, being .500 in consecutive seasons and just not looking like themselves. What is natural to them is being contenders, winning the division, contending in the playoffs. They were in the 2018 NFC championship game.
So you want to be very, very mindful of alright, I’m bringing in new guys, young guys, whatever it is to start over, but who’s going to create the culture, who’s going to show the young guys what it is to be a professional? And if you just fill this team up with young players, they could be as talented as they want but you don’t know if they’re going to be leaders. And that’s always the tricky part where if you don’t have a nice mix of solid veterans, yeah they’re past their primes, but they’re bringing along the young guys, not just play wise, professionally to be professionals, to then lead this team into the next 10 years. Then you’re going to have a lot of up and down games. You see those teams, one minute they can beat the best of the best and then the next minute they’re losing to the worst of the worst. And you can’t figure out why but it’s because there’s no senior leadership and they have to be mindful of that.
Q: Is there a good candidate for the New Orleans head coaching job?
Jonathan Vilma: I like what I’ve seen from Darren Rizzi so far as an interim coach, bringing more energy to the team, holding the team accountable, making sure that they play. If they’re going to move on from Darren Rizzi, they had a coach who’s done a phenomenal job in Detroit now in Aaron Glenn. He was there with the Saints under Sean Payton. I like that hire because Aaron Glenn is about developing players. He’s about structure, organization and not that other coaches aren’t, but you can see proof in the pudding of what he’s done in Detroit. And it’s not with a bunch of superstars at all. It’s with fourth-round guys, fifth-round guys, backups to the backups that are playing and playing well. And so if you bring someone in like that, then it goes back to alignment. The first thing you have to do is preach patience. To the fans, to the rest of the organization, because he’s going to coach them tough, he’s going to coach them hard.
There are going to be some really good players that may not stay on the team. But three, four years from now, like you see in Detroit, that didn’t happen overnight. That took four years. And there was a point where people were calling for Dan Campbell to be fired. All of a sudden they start to win a few games, they get hot. Then last year they got really hot and now this year they’re on a roll. So you gotta preach patience and allow the coach to do what he does best and Aaron Glenn, he does a phenomenal job of developing the players, but you have to give them time and if the organization is going to buy into that and buy into Aaron Glenn and what the vision is going to be four years from now, then I think it’s a great hire. If they move on from Darren Rizzi, I think that’d be the next best option. If not, whatever aligns with what Gayle Benson, Mickey Loomis and what they want, hopefully they get it, but you just can’t, especially in this day and age where there’s so much information being thrown out so quickly, you can’t succumb to what the fans want every time. One minute the fans want this, next minute fans want that, right? And if you’re trying to please them all the time, as opposed to having your set structured system, you’re never going to win.
Q: Drew Brees is going to do some broadcasting on Christmas. Is broadcasting like football in which he can go back to the tape and figure out his weaknesses and then improve?
A: I know he called one playoff game with NBC, but I didn’t get a chance to listen to it. But I would say one: the fans are always uber critical of the play by play when calling the games, right? So if you know that they’re going to hang on to your every word whether it’s good or bad, you just go out and be relaxed and call it. Because. I always tell people I’m talking for three hours straight. I’m going to mess something up. It is what it is. And so as long as you don’t get engulfed in that one time, you should have said something differently or whatever it is. And you just continue the flow of the game. I think people also recognize that the knowledge is there, the comfort is there, and the delivery is also equally important.
So for Drew, I know that he is a workaholic. I know he watched his tape 20 times over on how he wants to improve, etc. And so what I see from Drew coming in the second time around, from whatever happened at NBC, I know he’s going to be much more relaxed. I know he’s going to be very natural. I know that he’s just going to really just enjoy it because at the end of the day, there was nobody better than Drew and it may be a little biased, but there was nobody better than Drew at that quarterback position. And I know people reading will think it’s Tom Brady, but I don’t care, I’m biased! So let that come out. If I’m Drew Brees, let that come out. Just go out, be natural, be relaxed. And look, if you flub something, move on, right? If you mess something up, who cares? Because it’s three hours of football. It’s meant to be fun. It’s not meant to be perfect. Just go out and enjoy it.
Q: Bill Belichick is rumored to be going to North Carolina. What do you think of that? The idea of him going to UNC instead of trying to wait for an NFL job, would that surprise you? And do you think at his age, can he do that successfully?
Jonathan Vilma: How old is Belichick?
72.
Jonathan Vilma: Mack Brown was in his 70s, I believe, as well. They just fired Mack Brown, and it’s definitely not for lack of energy. I asked his age because I look at a guy and think does he still have the passion? And he most definitely has the passion for it. So I don’t think it’s an issue of passion or energy, right? It’s really about relating to the guys. I was always told a great coach knows how to teach, motivate and inspire. And clearly he can teach. Can you now motivate and inspire the young kids? And literally the young kids, right? He has sons that are older than the people he’s going to be recruiting. I want to take that as UNC being very serious about wanting to win. I also take that as a head coach who is very serious about wanting to develop young players. And that was always a thing.
I was so impressed with Bill Belichick, his teams. We always talk about Brady. He had so many Pro Bowlers, future Hall of Famers on his teams. It wasn’t just Tom Brady that was the guy and winning all the championships. He was a very big part of it. But you look at the defenses, like Darrell Revis goes over there and he wins a Super Bowl. Literally Bill Belichick knew all I need is this one piece to bring in and I’ll be able to now work my whole defense around him to win another Super Bowl, which inevitably happened. He took players that we had never heard of and they became awesome players. So he is really, really good at developing. And I think that’s probably at its core, the essence for Belichick. That’s what he wanted. He wants to get back to. Let me go and get these 18 year old kids, 19 year old kids and develop them.
And then now they’ll be ready, ready for their time in the NFL. And they’ll do a great job when they’re there. So I like both sides of it. I like that UNC is saying we’re letting go of Mack Brown, love what he did. But we’re not just going to bring in some splash head coach that we have no idea if they can do anything or coach or develop players. We’re very serious about bringing in someone who is very serious about developing the talent. And Belichick, if he’s gonna do it, you know he’s gonna do it 100 miles an hour. He’s gonna be all in. I’d be shocked if anybody ever told me he’s checked out. Those two don’t mix right. Belichick and check out, it doesn’t mix at all.
And so I’m really excited to see that, beause even when I called a couple of their games last year, the year before they weren’t doing so well. Every player raved about him, especially on the defensive side. They just raved about how they learn so much football in the year or 18 months that they were with Belichick then they learned in their five or six year career prior to that. Jabrill Peppers was a great example. Every time I talked to him, he told me he learned so much football under Bill Belichick and wished he started his career there. And those types of phrases kept coming up from these players. So I’m excited for if that does happen. I’m excited to see it. I’m excited to see not again, patience, right? Not the first year. Give it about three, four years, right? Jim Harbaugh. How many years did he need at Michigan before they finally became THAT team, right? It took a little while. So give them some time, let them become THAT team, maybe four years from now, five, whatever it is, but I’m sure that they’ll get there.
Q: You personally, do you have any interest in coaching or do you like the broadcasting and the media side?
Jonathan Vilma: My daughter is now 15. So when I retired, she was like four years old. And at that time, I just wanted to spend time with her and really had no interest in coaching because of the time Now I look and I could do it. I would still wait until she graduates high school, before I do it, because it’s a lot of time that you have to put in. But I’m really enjoying broadcasting. It’s a lot of fun. Still keeps me in the game, watching the film as if I was playing, it’s good. And then, like I said, I know football. And so I’m not going to be perfect for three hours, but it’s going to be fun. Hopefully you learn a thing or two. So it’s good. I enjoy it.
Q: During the ‘Bountygate’ stuff, obviously your relationship with Commissioner Goodell wasn’t good. Has that changed at all over the years? Have you run into him and has anything been patched up?
Jonathan Vilma: Short answer, no. Nothing’s been patched up. But I kind of chuckle a little bit because people are always surprised by this response I’m going to give you. I always said if I were in his shoes. I would have done the exact same thing he did, so I’m not mad at him for doing it. I’m mad at the situation because I’m on the other side, but I was never mad at him for the course of action that he took. I was never mad at him and to this day I’m still not mad at him for the course of action that he took. People ask me, do you hate Goodell? I don’t hate Goodell. Matter of fact, if I saw him, I’d be like, ‘Hey, how are you doing? What’s going on?’. And it wouldn’t, wouldn’t make a difference to me one way or another because it’s only if he had acted out of character, I would have been like, ‘all right, that’s someone I don’t ever want to deal with or anything like that.’
But no nothing’s been patched up because there was frankly nothing to patch up if that makes sense, right? We weren’t friends before. It wasn’t like I was calling him or reaching out or vice versa. We never spoke before Bountygate happened. I could see why he would do what he did. As I said, if I were in his shoes, I would have done the same thing and probably would have been more aggressive doing it if I were in his shoes, to be very honest. And so it happened after that. We don’t speak, we never spoke before. So it’s not, to me, it’s not like there’s a need to go patch anything up. You know, it is what it is.
Q: Have you ever run into him?
Jonathan Vilma: We have a seminar every year for Fox this past year and he was actually our key speaker for one of our panel sessions. He was up there, spoke and had a great time. Afterwards I didn’t really run into him. But had we, let’s say, crossed paths. I would have said, ‘Hey, how are you doing?’ and probably made some little slick comment, right? Why not? Right? Like who cares? But yeah, there’s definitely and obviously I’m sure from the other side, it’s the same thing. We are definitely not avoiding each other or trying to not cross paths or anything like that. It is so funny because so many people have asked me and they’re like, man, really? I thought you’d be really upset with them. No, it’s business. It’s what it was at the time. It was a business decision on his part. And like I said, if I were in his shoes, I would’ve done the same thing.
Q: I’m wondering who you think the best off ball linebacker is in the NFL right now.
Jonathan Vilma: Great question. I just finished calling the 49ers and watching Fred Warner and I’m still so impressed with the way he plays middlebacker for the 49ers and that’s replacing a Patrick Willis, a Hall of Famer, right? It’s really good football that he’s playing. I really like watching him. That would be the first one that comes to mind. He’s violent. He’s physical. He attacks football. He’s smart, man. He’s a really, really good linebacker. Then you have Roquan Smith over at Baltimore, who is really, really fast. He’s a tremendous athlete. I would say Warner is a little more physical than Roquan which obviously I like, but he’s also a really, really good player.
I might be missing a couple. A bunch start to kind of flash in my head, but those two are really, really good at using their instincts. They track the ball as well as anybody. It’s really, really fun to watch. Zaire Franklin was another one I like watching too. We called their game maybe about two or three weeks ago. So watching film on him, I was really, really impressed with the way he gets after the football. He has a very, very good peripheral vision, peripheral awareness. So he’s able to kind of use his hands and things and go and still make plays. So I’d say those three right now, I really, really like the way they’re playing.
Q: What about a young guy who isn’t the household name yet? Someone who might ascend and become a star, isn’t quite there yet, but somebody that shows a lot of that potential?
Jonathan Vilma: So he was a Pro Bowler, but he’s not been talked about a lot. Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, the Cleveland Browns linebacker. He’s been in and out of the lineup. He’s been injured a little bit and I think he might have a real injury that might force him to retire. I think I read that. So hopefully that’s not the case. If that’s not the case and he does come back. He’s a linebacker who is just ‘lights out’. I didn’t know who he was, so I’ll take a step back. I called a Browns game two years ago. And I looked at this guy and said he’s pretty good. He’ll make a splash play and kind of bust a play and he’s kind of good.
And then last year I called one of the games and I was like, whoa, who is this guy? And then I kind of went back to my notes. I was like oh this guy Jeremiah, he’s pretty good. Then I called a game this year when he was still healthy and I was doing everything I can to try to put an ISO on him and a spotlight on him. I was really, really hoping that they won the game and he played well because I couldn’t wait to talk about him and how well he played. They lost but he still had a good game, but I was like if the Browns could ever get their act together, just rip off like five, six wins in a row, I promise you, they will be talking about him more. Hopefully he’s going to be okay because he’s a very talented player, very talented.